1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 The Police of Austin, Texas 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:09,800 Tonight on Unsolved Mysteries. 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:11,440 Rock and roll star Kurt Cobain 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,320 was renowned for his music and announced 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,880 for his drug-addicted lifestyle. 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,880 To many, his suicide in 1994 seemed understandable. 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,000 But what if Kurt Cobain did not take his own life? 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,080 At least one investigator is convinced 9 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:29,280 that the official ruling was a rush to judgment. 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,560 The police have always valued the phenomenal nose 11 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,320 of the dog, whether it's tracking a fugitive, 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,760 detecting a bomb, or uncovering a stash of drugs. 13 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,280 Now the medical world is catching on. 14 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,480 Can a dog's remarkable sense of smell 15 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:47,080 be used to sniff out deadly cancer cells? 16 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,200 Tommy Ziegler is a condemned man, 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,080 sentenced to the electric chair for a Christmas Eve rampage 18 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,600 that left four people dead, including his own wife. 19 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,480 Recently, an independent lie detector 20 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,880 test suggested that Ziegler may in fact be innocent. 21 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,320 You be the judge. 22 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,880 The final appeal of Tommy Ziegler. 23 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,840 Join me for another intriguing edition of Unsolved Mysteries. 24 00:01:39,840 --> 00:02:07,920 The cure for cancer is medicine's holy grail. 25 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,120 In the absence of a cure, early diagnosis is our best hope. 26 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,160 Amazingly, one of mother nature's most ingenious designs 27 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,040 may have given us an astonishingly accurate detection device. 28 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,880 This unsolved mystery could save your life. 29 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,960 A dog's nose, as sensitive as radar, 30 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,560 is accurate as a heat-seeking missile. 31 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,000 It's been estimated that a dog's sense of smell 32 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,480 is more than 200 million times stronger 33 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,200 than that of humans. 34 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,200 Over the centuries, we've trained dogs 35 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,480 to find anything we needed. 36 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,240 Incredibly, our four-legged friends 37 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,520 may also be able to detect some kinds of cancer, 38 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,400 as long as two years before doctors can diagnose it. 39 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,680 Dwayne Pickle has been training dogs professionally 40 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,800 for more than three decades. 41 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,960 He worked with them during the Vietnam War 42 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,080 and during his 22 years with the Tallahassee Florida Police 43 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,760 Department. 44 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,480 When a local dermatologist wondered 45 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,280 if cancer had a signature scent and if dogs could smell it, 46 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,200 Dwayne decided to find out. 47 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,080 I talked to several nurses at the hospital, 48 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,560 and they said, yes, I can smell cancer myself. 49 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,560 And said, Vance, when you get off the elevator floor 50 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,320 at the hospital, there's something unique about that floor, 51 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,120 as far as smell is concerned. 52 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,640 Not necessarily offensive, but something very unique. 53 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:34,320 The initial experiment centered on skin cancer 54 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,000 for two reasons. 55 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,640 First, it affects more people than any other cancer 56 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,880 killing thousands every year. 57 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,920 Second, skin cancer is extremely difficult for doctors 58 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,440 to detect visually, especially the most dangerous type, 59 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,440 melanoma. 60 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,840 Melanoma begins on the surface of the skin, 61 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,440 and at that point is 100% curable. 62 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,440 However, if you ignore it, it will grow deeper into the skin, 63 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,440 and eventually it will reach the blood vessels. 64 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,440 Once it reaches the blood vessels, 65 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,440 it can spread around the body and reach the vital organs. 66 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,440 Once it's done that, there is no treatment. 67 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,440 Dwayne hit real melanoma cells inside plastic tubes, 68 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,440 hoping the scent was strong enough for a dog to detect. 69 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,440 Come on, George. 70 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,440 Dwayne started the experiment with George. 71 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,440 A standard schnauzer already trained to sniff out bombs. 72 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,440 Once George was given the scent, Dwayne hid the canister. 73 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,440 I wasn't sure whether it was going to have a strong smell, 74 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,440 or whether it was going to be like a salt 75 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,440 and have a very weak smell. 76 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,440 And we found out that it has a very strong smell, 77 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,440 and if you're going to compare the ease of finding cancer 78 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,440 with the ease of finding drugs, 79 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,440 you'd have to equate cancer with marijuana. 80 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,440 It's very strong odor, very odourous, 81 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,440 very easy for the dog to find. 82 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,440 Dwayne Pickle took pains to make certain 83 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,440 George was actually finding cancer cells. 84 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,440 To be sure the dog couldn't be thrown off, 85 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,440 he also tested George's ability on a variety of other cells. 86 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,440 We used normal lung tissue from pigs. 87 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,440 We used normal lung tissue and skin tissue from people. 88 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:22,440 We used necrotic tissue. 89 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,440 We used everything we could to make sure 90 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,440 that the dog was really, truly trained to find cancer. 91 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,440 Show me where it's at. 92 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,440 Good boy. 93 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:35,440 Okay. 94 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,440 Then we knew that we hadn't made. 95 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,440 The dog was doing a good job and was indeed finding cancer. 96 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,440 The first part of the experiment seemed a clear success. 97 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:51,440 Out of 451 searches, George and other cancer-trained dogs 98 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,440 had a 99.8% success rate. 99 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,440 Now Dwayne went to the next level. 100 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,440 Kim Edwards, a nurse, became a human volunteer. 101 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,440 During each of a dozen tests, 102 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,440 she placed bandages on her body. 103 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Sometimes there were live cancer cells beneath them. 104 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,440 Sometimes there were none. 105 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,440 I actually would use long underwear to completely cover everything 106 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,440 so that George wouldn't have any indications 107 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:19,440 of where the bandages might be placed 108 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,440 or where the cancer cells might be placed. 109 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,440 Hey, Kim, let's just go ahead and lay down. 110 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:26,440 We'll get started. 111 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,440 And Dwayne would not know how many bandages I had on 112 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,440 or even whether I had any cancerous bandages on. 113 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,440 Come on, George. Let's go. Check. 114 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,440 Good. Check. 115 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:37,440 Come on. 116 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:38,440 Okay. 117 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:39,440 Okay. 118 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:40,440 Okay. 119 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:41,440 Okay. 120 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:42,440 Okay. 121 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:43,440 Okay. 122 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:44,440 Okay. 123 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:45,440 Okay. 124 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:46,440 There we go. 125 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:47,440 All right. 126 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:48,440 Okay. 127 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:49,440 Is that where you put it? 128 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:50,440 Yep. 129 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:51,440 That's the spot. 130 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:52,440 Show me again. 131 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:53,440 Where's it at? 132 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,440 Every time George indicated only on the cancer cells, 133 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,440 he hit every one of them every time, or if there were none, 134 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,440 he never indicated on them. 135 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,440 While you're doing that, we're going to have the dog check here. 136 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:05,440 We're going to start at the head. 137 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,440 Eddie Messer, a Tallahassee police officer, 138 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,440 also volunteered as a human guinea pig. 139 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,440 A biopsy on a suspicious spot on Eddie's back 140 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,440 had already tested negative for skin cancer. 141 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,440 Let's find this out. 142 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,440 George slowly went over Eddie's body, 143 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,440 checking each bandage thoroughly. 144 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,440 When George reached the suspicious spot, 145 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,440 his nose smelled skin cancer. 146 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:46,440 Show me. 147 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,440 When George first put his nose to that spot, 148 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,440 it felt a little funny there. 149 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,440 But knowing and being in the background that I've been in, 150 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,440 and working with dogs at the airport and what have you, 151 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,440 it makes you think there, maybe he knows what he's talking about. 152 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,440 For a second opinion, 153 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,440 Duane's partner Glenda Manuse brought in her cancer-trained 154 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,440 dog, Breeze. 155 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,440 Breeze confirmed George's diagnosis. 156 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,440 Eddie had a second biopsy. 157 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,440 It was still negative. 158 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,440 Duane was sure it was wrong. 159 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,440 They called me and said, well, the spot came back negative. 160 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:27,440 I said, I'm very sorry. 161 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,440 My dog said it's melanoma. 162 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:30,440 It's melanoma. 163 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,440 So then they took off the whole lesion, 164 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,440 and they froze it, and they sent it to a lab in Cleveland. 165 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,440 They shaved it, just one little stroke at a time. 166 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,440 It actually took four and a half days later 167 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,440 before they found that there was a spot in the middle of that lesion 168 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,440 that was amelanomic level three. 169 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,440 If it hadn't been for the dog, 170 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,440 if it hadn't been for this pathologist checking on this one spot 171 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,440 for four and a half days and finding yes, 172 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,440 proving the dog was right. 173 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,440 In a couple of years, it could have been B. Ron Repair. 174 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,440 But now we found it early enough so that it is repairable. 175 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,440 And that you're going to do fine. 176 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,440 This could lead to some exciting research 177 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,440 finding out what is it that the dog's smelling, 178 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,440 and that that may lead to blood tests 179 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,440 or other tests to find these molecules 180 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,440 as a detection system for cancers. 181 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:28,440 Coming up, the mysterious case of rock and roll star Kurt Cobain 182 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,440 is there more to his untimely death than suicide? 183 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,440 But first, a judge put him on death row 184 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,440 for the cold-blooded murder of four people, 185 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,440 while an independent lie detector test suggests he may be innocent. 186 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,440 Also, Lou Hinesian joins us from the phone center 187 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,440 with an intriguing update. 188 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,440 You may recall this harrowing scene from a previous broadcast. 189 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,440 Here it is. 190 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,440 The double murder was as mystifying as it was ruthless. 191 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,440 Michele Cartagena and Grant Hendrickson, 192 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,440 two straight-laced, deans-less college students, 193 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,240 had been killed in a barrage of semi-automatic rifle fire. 194 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,640 Michelle's body had been dragged from the car 195 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,040 and her clothing left in disarray. 196 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,720 One eyewitness reported seeing a Honda CRX 197 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,220 near the lakeside park where Grant and Michelle were killed. 198 00:10:52,220 --> 00:10:55,520 Others described a similar car speeding from the area 199 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,820 just after the murders. 200 00:10:58,820 --> 00:11:01,000 At the scene, the only clues were spent 201 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,900 shells from the Colt AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. 202 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,500 To solve the crime, authorities would need a run of luck. 203 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:13,140 In a classic case of detective work, they made their own. 204 00:11:13,140 --> 00:11:15,880 Keely Shea Smith is still on maternity leave. 205 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,780 Here's Lou Honessian with the tales of the investigation 206 00:11:18,780 --> 00:11:21,180 that cracked the case. 207 00:11:21,180 --> 00:11:22,080 Thanks, Bob. 208 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,780 For nearly two years, investigators 209 00:11:23,780 --> 00:11:26,280 checked the records of every major pawn shop and gun 210 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,260 dealer within 150 miles of Macon, Georgia. 211 00:11:29,260 --> 00:11:31,120 They interviewed every single person 212 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,620 who had sold or pawned a Colt AR-15. 213 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:37,380 The first 2,000 leads turned out to be dead ends. 214 00:11:37,380 --> 00:11:40,120 Still, they persisted. 215 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,260 One of the agents found some pawn records on an assault 216 00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:47,100 rifle that he was following up. 217 00:11:47,100 --> 00:11:48,800 When he followed up those records, 218 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,460 that's where he located Mr. Andy Cook. 219 00:11:51,460 --> 00:11:54,960 And he, in a routine interview there, interviewed him. 220 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,340 And the suspect acting somewhat suspicious made him want 221 00:11:58,340 --> 00:12:00,340 to follow that up a little further. 222 00:12:00,340 --> 00:12:04,080 And that's how he was developed as a suspect. 223 00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:06,700 The suspect, 22-year-old Andy Cook, 224 00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:09,940 had also owned a Honda CRX, similar to the one 225 00:12:09,940 --> 00:12:11,480 spotted at the scene. 226 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,740 Authorities kept Cook under surveillance. 227 00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:16,340 And within a week, he managed to get himself arrested 228 00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:18,220 on a hunting violation. 229 00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:21,220 Later that day, Cook's father told authorities 230 00:12:21,220 --> 00:12:26,020 his son had confessed to the double murder. 231 00:12:26,020 --> 00:12:28,100 A ballistics test was the clincher. 232 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:30,060 Police say slugs from Cook's rifle 233 00:12:30,060 --> 00:12:33,060 matched those that had killed Grant Hendrickson and Michelle 234 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,020 Cartagena. 235 00:12:34,020 --> 00:12:59,900 The 236 00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:07,940 For convicted murderers on death row, 237 00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:11,180 it's just a few short steps to eternity. 238 00:13:11,180 --> 00:13:14,700 The electric chair awaits, ready to exact the ultimate price 239 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:15,780 for the ultimate crime. 240 00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:21,140 Unless his last ditch legal appeal succeeds, 241 00:13:21,140 --> 00:13:23,460 51-year-old Tommy Ziegler will someday 242 00:13:23,460 --> 00:13:26,020 be led from his cell and executed. 243 00:13:26,020 --> 00:13:30,540 Florida's retribution for a savage multiple murder. 244 00:13:30,540 --> 00:13:31,860 I did not kill Eunice. 245 00:13:31,860 --> 00:13:33,580 I did not kill Mr. and Ms. Edwards. 246 00:13:33,580 --> 00:13:35,900 And I did not kill Charlie Mase. 247 00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:37,500 I have not killed anybody. 248 00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:43,260 Tommy Ziegler was wealthy and well-known. 249 00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:45,380 His family owned Ziegler's furniture store 250 00:13:45,380 --> 00:13:48,060 and several apartment buildings in the town of Wintergarden, 251 00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:49,340 Florida. 252 00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:51,820 Ziegler was married, attended church, 253 00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:56,980 called the mayor and chief of police by their first names. 254 00:13:56,980 --> 00:14:00,740 According to prosecutors, it wasn't enough for Tommy Ziegler. 255 00:14:00,740 --> 00:14:03,660 This is a scenario they presented in court. 256 00:14:03,660 --> 00:14:05,340 Ziegler murdered his wife, Eunice, 257 00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:07,660 in the kitchen area of the furniture store 258 00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:10,620 on Christmas Eve in 1975. 259 00:14:10,620 --> 00:14:11,660 His motive? 260 00:14:11,660 --> 00:14:14,060 To turn half a million dollars of life insurance 261 00:14:14,060 --> 00:14:16,660 into cold cash. 262 00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:20,940 My marriage was very good, very sound. 263 00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:23,540 Eunice and I loved each other greatly. 264 00:14:23,540 --> 00:14:25,420 I couldn't kill her. 265 00:14:25,420 --> 00:14:29,220 There's just no way I could kill her. 266 00:14:29,420 --> 00:14:31,020 I loved her. 267 00:14:31,020 --> 00:14:32,220 She was my life. 268 00:14:32,220 --> 00:14:35,820 That was just all there was to it. 269 00:14:35,820 --> 00:14:39,500 The killings didn't stop with Eunice, say prosecutors. 270 00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:41,500 Her parents, Perry, and Virginia Edwards 271 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:43,220 were also at the store that night. 272 00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:51,300 By pre-arrangement, a customer named Charlie Mase stopped 273 00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:53,540 by to pick up a television set. 274 00:14:53,540 --> 00:14:55,060 Ziegler's plan? 275 00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:57,780 To kill Mase and frame him for robbing the store 276 00:14:57,780 --> 00:14:59,460 and murdering Eunice and her parents. 277 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,780 Mase would be found with store receipts and cash 278 00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:06,940 stuffed in his pockets. 279 00:15:09,940 --> 00:15:13,620 Ziegler entered the blood bath with a final dramatic flourish. 280 00:15:13,620 --> 00:15:16,620 He shot himself in the side to ensure that he, too, 281 00:15:16,620 --> 00:15:17,780 would be seen as a victim. 282 00:15:21,260 --> 00:15:24,260 Prosecutors say they never fell for the charade. 283 00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:25,980 Ziegler was still in the hospital when 284 00:15:25,980 --> 00:15:28,020 he was charged with the killings. 285 00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:31,300 Soon after, he was convicted and condemned to death. 286 00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:33,300 Assistance State Attorney Jeffrey Ashton 287 00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:37,540 will represent Florida if Ziegler is granted an appeal. 288 00:15:37,540 --> 00:15:40,180 I think that Tommy Ziegler will ultimately 289 00:15:40,180 --> 00:15:42,860 die for killing those four people. 290 00:15:42,860 --> 00:15:45,100 And I believe he is the right man to die for it. 291 00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:46,580 And I believe that he will deserve it. 292 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:51,740 This is how Tommy Ziegler tells it. 293 00:15:51,740 --> 00:15:54,620 He planned to meet Eunice and her parents at the store. 294 00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:57,180 He says he was unaware that they were already dead 295 00:15:57,180 --> 00:16:02,260 when he opened the back door and found the lights not working. 296 00:16:02,260 --> 00:16:05,180 I walked from there into the main showroom through the door 297 00:16:05,180 --> 00:16:06,460 and I was hitting the back of the head. 298 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:12,540 As I was getting up, there were two blurs coming at me. 299 00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:14,380 One was a shorter stocking man. 300 00:16:14,380 --> 00:16:16,500 One was a big burly man. 301 00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:22,220 I was just being bounced around. 302 00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:23,180 Glass was breaking. 303 00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:25,780 Things were being knocked over and knocked down. 304 00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:29,140 I was thrown back into the hallway. 305 00:16:29,140 --> 00:16:31,500 Ziegler kept large amounts of cash at the store 306 00:16:31,500 --> 00:16:34,540 and carried a handgun for protection. 307 00:16:34,540 --> 00:16:37,620 He believes he may have wounded one of the assailants. 308 00:16:37,620 --> 00:16:42,020 Then he himself was shot in the side. 309 00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:44,060 Before filming this segment, we insisted 310 00:16:44,060 --> 00:16:46,740 that Tommy Ziegler submit to a lie detector test 311 00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:48,900 with no attorneys present. 312 00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:51,780 Ziegler was examined by one of the country's most respected 313 00:16:51,820 --> 00:16:55,340 forensic specialist, John Paul Matier. 314 00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:57,540 After talking to Tommy Ziegler for the period of time 315 00:16:57,540 --> 00:17:00,660 that I did in assessing all of the other information 316 00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:03,380 that I had, it was my professional opinion 317 00:17:03,380 --> 00:17:06,620 that Tommy Ziegler was telling the truth 318 00:17:06,620 --> 00:17:10,980 and that in fact, he had walked into probably 319 00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:13,620 an armed robbery in progress or that 320 00:17:13,620 --> 00:17:19,060 was staged for his benefit and that he was in fact a victim. 321 00:17:19,060 --> 00:17:22,540 Condemned killer Tommy Ziegler won't go quietly. 322 00:17:22,540 --> 00:17:24,900 For more than 20 years, from a hospital bed, 323 00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:27,060 from a courtroom, now from death row, 324 00:17:27,060 --> 00:17:29,820 he is loudly proclaimed as innocence. 325 00:17:29,820 --> 00:17:32,020 Ziegler and his attorneys say they have new evidence 326 00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:33,700 that debunks the prosecution case 327 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:36,020 and makes liars of its witnesses. 328 00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:38,180 The state stands by the verdict. 329 00:17:38,180 --> 00:17:40,300 Tommy Ziegler is guilty. 330 00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:41,620 His motive? 331 00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:46,900 A life insurance payout of $500,000. 332 00:17:47,620 --> 00:17:49,980 Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. 333 00:17:49,980 --> 00:17:52,020 On the night of the murder, Ziegler stumbled out 334 00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:54,900 of the store at 9.25. 335 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:57,300 Minutes earlier, Ziegler had called the police chief 336 00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:59,900 at a private party to report that he'd been shot. 337 00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:01,020 Is anyone here? 338 00:18:01,020 --> 00:18:03,260 Almost immediately, evidence in the store 339 00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:05,180 raised troubling questions. 340 00:18:05,180 --> 00:18:07,100 First, the body of Ziegler's wife, Eunice. 341 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:14,060 Her oddly unruffled pose, coat on, hand in pocket, 342 00:18:14,060 --> 00:18:18,460 suggested to police that her killer was no stranger. 343 00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:21,980 I think it's very unlikely that any unknown assailant 344 00:18:21,980 --> 00:18:25,460 could get in a position where they could surprise Eunice Ziegler 345 00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:26,740 in that kind of circumstance. 346 00:18:26,740 --> 00:18:28,700 And shoot her in the back of the head 347 00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:31,980 and catch her in that way. 348 00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:34,500 Second problem, blood type. 349 00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:37,740 Ziegler's father-in-law, Perry Edwards, was Type A. 350 00:18:37,740 --> 00:18:40,700 Tommy Ziegler's shirt was stained with a quantity of Type A 351 00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:44,940 blood in addition to his own Type O. 352 00:18:44,940 --> 00:18:46,580 His story didn't account for that 353 00:18:46,580 --> 00:18:49,140 as to how he got someone else's blood on his shirt. 354 00:18:49,140 --> 00:18:52,500 And the blood type matched Perry Edwards, 355 00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:55,060 which would indicate that he was involved in that struggle 356 00:18:55,060 --> 00:18:58,820 with Perry Edwards that resulted in his death. 357 00:18:58,820 --> 00:19:00,940 During the course of his struggle in the store 358 00:19:00,940 --> 00:19:03,820 when Tommy first came in, he was in a fight 359 00:19:03,820 --> 00:19:05,420 with a couple of people. 360 00:19:05,420 --> 00:19:08,060 One of those people he had a struggle with 361 00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:10,260 and was hitting him with a gun. 362 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:12,020 It would have caused bleeding and it could have 363 00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:13,020 caused the blood there. 364 00:19:16,180 --> 00:19:19,100 Scattered among the bodies were five handguns, 365 00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:21,820 four of them wiped clean of fingerprints. 366 00:19:21,820 --> 00:19:24,140 Two of the guns were inexpensive Saturday night 367 00:19:24,140 --> 00:19:28,420 specials made by a company named RG. 368 00:19:28,420 --> 00:19:29,820 Of the five guns found in the store, 369 00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:34,340 three of them were documented as belonging to Tommy Ziegler. 370 00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:37,620 The other two that were there, which was the cheaper guns, 371 00:19:37,620 --> 00:19:39,740 were not registered to him. 372 00:19:39,740 --> 00:19:42,660 But they were connected to him through another witness. 373 00:19:42,660 --> 00:19:45,100 I bought good high quality guns when I bought guns 374 00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:47,820 and I had good high quality guns. 375 00:19:47,820 --> 00:19:49,980 From what I understand and from what I saw at trial, 376 00:19:49,980 --> 00:19:52,900 those are G's or garbage. 377 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:54,740 State your name, please. 378 00:19:54,740 --> 00:19:56,180 Felton Thomas, sir. 379 00:19:56,180 --> 00:19:57,900 One of the key witnesses for the state 380 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:00,060 was a man named Felton Thomas. 381 00:20:00,060 --> 00:20:01,900 Thomas was a friend of Charlie May's, 382 00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:03,900 one of the four victims. 383 00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:05,460 Tommy Ziegler says, you count, you're 384 00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:08,700 about to hear as a total fabrication start to finish. 385 00:20:08,740 --> 00:20:10,140 You went to Furniture Store. 386 00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:13,660 About what time did you get to the Furniture Store? 387 00:20:13,660 --> 00:20:16,260 Felton Thomas testified that on the night of the murders, 388 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:18,540 he had gone to Ziegler's store with Charlie May's. 389 00:20:18,540 --> 00:20:19,940 Oh, sorry I'm late. 390 00:20:19,940 --> 00:20:21,260 Oh, that's all right. 391 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:23,100 Hey, this is Felton Thomas. 392 00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:24,980 He come to help to get the TV set. 393 00:20:24,980 --> 00:20:26,660 Listen, the guy with the keys isn't here yet. 394 00:20:26,660 --> 00:20:29,300 But while we're waiting for him, why don't we take a ride? 395 00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:31,700 I got something I want to show you. 396 00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:32,600 All right. 397 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,580 All right, come on, Felton. 398 00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:37,140 Thomas told the court that Ziegler took them to a nearby 399 00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:40,980 orange grove to show off some new guns. 400 00:20:40,980 --> 00:20:42,380 Smooth, clean action. 401 00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:43,280 Yeah. 402 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,780 All right, I'm going to step out and fire all the stuff. 403 00:20:44,780 --> 00:20:45,700 No, no, no, no, no, no. 404 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:47,500 Right here. 405 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,460 Just do it for the window. 406 00:20:49,460 --> 00:20:51,420 Prosecutors charged as Ziegler's plan 407 00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:54,540 was to taint Thomas and May's with gunshot residue 408 00:20:54,540 --> 00:20:58,420 and taint the weapons with their fingerprints. 409 00:20:58,420 --> 00:21:02,180 If, in fact, that was his purpose for doing that, 410 00:21:02,180 --> 00:21:04,820 so that he could set up Charlie May's and Felton Thomas 411 00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:07,020 and have their prints on the guns, 412 00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:10,140 why were all of the guns wiped clean? 413 00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:12,220 What happened later at the store? 414 00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:13,660 May told Ziegler he'd go around and get it. 415 00:21:13,660 --> 00:21:15,980 Thomas testified that once back at the store, 416 00:21:15,980 --> 00:21:18,180 Ziegler asked him to kill the power. 417 00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:19,700 Thomas complied. 418 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:20,600 You sure about that? 419 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:21,500 Yeah, pull it down. 420 00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:22,100 All right. 421 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:24,900 Ziegler then made a more startling proposal. 422 00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:26,460 Break in. 423 00:21:26,460 --> 00:21:27,620 Come on. 424 00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:28,860 OK, Charlie. 425 00:21:28,860 --> 00:21:32,260 Pick yourself up a piece of pipe and help us out. 426 00:21:32,260 --> 00:21:35,540 To prosecutors, it was all part of Ziegler's plan. 427 00:21:35,540 --> 00:21:38,260 Create evidence of a robbery to explain the murders 428 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:39,540 of Eunice and her parents. 429 00:21:39,540 --> 00:21:40,860 Oh, I ain't doing it. 430 00:21:40,860 --> 00:21:44,180 All right, well, maybe I've got an extra key back home. 431 00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:46,740 Why don't we go and pick it up? 432 00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:47,660 I don't want time to do that. 433 00:21:47,660 --> 00:21:50,140 Thomas told the court that they next drove to Ziegler's house 434 00:21:50,140 --> 00:21:51,460 for the key. 435 00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:52,900 Then they went back to the store. 436 00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,580 Felton, you going to come in and help us with the TV? 437 00:21:59,580 --> 00:22:04,940 According to Thomas, Maze and Ziegler went inside and he left. 438 00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:07,700 Prosecutors say that once inside the store, 439 00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:08,820 Ziegler killed Maze. 440 00:22:11,620 --> 00:22:15,060 The defense completely dismisses Thomas' account. 441 00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:17,740 To begin with, they claim his entire scenario 442 00:22:17,740 --> 00:22:20,340 would have to occur in less than 21 minutes. 443 00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:21,940 We get out of this box. 444 00:22:21,940 --> 00:22:24,220 Felton Thomas is a joke. 445 00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:26,620 I have no idea why Felton Thomas would make up 446 00:22:26,620 --> 00:22:28,100 a story like that. 447 00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:31,140 I had never laid eyes on him until he walked in that courtroom 448 00:22:31,140 --> 00:22:32,060 to testify against me. 449 00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:37,420 Another key witness for the state 450 00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:40,420 was Ed Williams, who had known and worked for the Ziegler family 451 00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:44,220 during the previous 10 years. 452 00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:46,300 Williams testified that on the night of the murder, 453 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,500 Ziegler gave him a handgun. 454 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:50,540 Later that night, Williams turned the weapon over 455 00:22:50,540 --> 00:22:53,060 to authorities. 456 00:22:53,060 --> 00:22:55,740 Holistic's test would reveal that bullets from that gun 457 00:22:55,740 --> 00:22:57,540 killed Perry and Virginia Edwards. 458 00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:04,380 Edward Williams in the last 20 years, as far as we know, 459 00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:06,100 has been an upstanding citizen. 460 00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:08,540 Hasn't done anything wrong. 461 00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:12,460 And there's no reason not to believe Edward Williams. 462 00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:14,780 However, Ziegler testified that the gun in question 463 00:23:14,780 --> 00:23:18,500 had been taken from his truck two weeks before the murders. 464 00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:21,780 Among those who had ready access to the vehicle was Ed Williams. 465 00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:24,780 A witness also linked Williams to the weapon that killed 466 00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:26,900 Eunice Ziegler, one of the Saturday night 467 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:28,300 specials found at the scene. 468 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:34,060 The witness, called by the prosecution, 469 00:23:34,060 --> 00:23:37,860 testified that he had purchased the two guns for Tommy Ziegler. 470 00:23:37,860 --> 00:23:41,500 However, he admitted they had never met face to face. 471 00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:44,420 The deal had actually been made through an intermediary, 472 00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:48,060 identified by the witness as Ed Williams. 473 00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:51,220 Edward Williams is, in fact, the one that purchased the two 474 00:23:51,220 --> 00:23:54,300 Saturday night specials that did the killing. 475 00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:57,420 And the only person that was found with a murder weapon 476 00:23:57,420 --> 00:24:00,020 on him was Edward Williams. 477 00:24:00,020 --> 00:24:03,620 They are all directly traceable to Edward Williams, 478 00:24:03,620 --> 00:24:06,260 not to Tommy Ziegler. 479 00:24:06,260 --> 00:24:08,900 It was not just the witnesses who took the stand that 480 00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:10,900 troubles Ziegler and his attorneys. 481 00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:14,220 It was also those who were never called. 482 00:24:14,220 --> 00:24:16,140 The defense court, who was the witness, 483 00:24:17,140 --> 00:24:20,020 the defense claims that two people verify Ziegler's 484 00:24:20,020 --> 00:24:25,420 contention that unidentified individuals had been at the store. 485 00:24:25,420 --> 00:24:29,100 A husband and wife reported to the sheriff's department 486 00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:31,860 that they had been driving by the Ziegler furniture store 487 00:24:31,860 --> 00:24:35,980 on the night of the crime, and that they had seen four cars, 488 00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:38,020 not two as the state had contended, 489 00:24:38,020 --> 00:24:41,380 outside the furniture store, including a white Cadillac, 490 00:24:41,380 --> 00:24:43,900 all of which is completely inconsistent with the state's 491 00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:45,420 version of events. 492 00:24:45,420 --> 00:24:49,300 In addition, they saw a man who generally fit the description 493 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:53,300 of Charlie Mays, who we believe was one of the perpetrators. 494 00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:56,300 And none of that was reported to the court. 495 00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:58,260 None of it was presented to the jury. 496 00:24:58,260 --> 00:25:01,220 And none of it was reported to the trial lawyers 497 00:25:01,220 --> 00:25:02,820 for Mr. Ziegler. 498 00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:04,460 Any witness who comes by and claims 499 00:25:04,460 --> 00:25:07,060 to be an eye or ear witness at the time of a murder 500 00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:08,540 is going to be interviewed. 501 00:25:08,540 --> 00:25:10,660 Is going to be a statement is going to be taken. 502 00:25:10,660 --> 00:25:12,660 So I think they're claimed that they went by the police 503 00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:16,660 department to talk about the case is not very credible. 504 00:25:20,460 --> 00:25:22,260 Ziegler's trial lasted four weeks 505 00:25:22,260 --> 00:25:25,620 and filled nearly 3,000 pages of transcripts. 506 00:25:25,620 --> 00:25:28,220 In the end, the jury voted to convict. 507 00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:31,180 They recommended life in prison, but they were overruled 508 00:25:31,180 --> 00:25:33,660 by Judge Maurice Paul. 509 00:25:33,660 --> 00:25:35,380 Notwithstanding the recommendation 510 00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:39,540 of a majority of the jury, it is the sentence of the law 511 00:25:39,540 --> 00:25:43,220 and the judgment of this court that you, William Thomas 512 00:25:43,220 --> 00:25:46,260 Ziegler, Jr. shall be put to death 513 00:25:46,260 --> 00:25:47,940 by means of elect procution. 514 00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:51,580 Nobody in their right mind can look at that trial transcript 515 00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:54,940 can say that there was a fair trial in Ziegler versus State. 516 00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:56,740 It was a railroad from day one. 517 00:25:59,820 --> 00:26:01,860 And Judge Paul orchestrated the whole thing. 518 00:26:04,780 --> 00:26:07,380 Ziegler believes Judge Paul had held a grudge against him 519 00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:09,620 since they testified for opposing sides 520 00:26:09,620 --> 00:26:12,700 on a better legal dispute. 521 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:16,500 Within months thereafter, Tommy Ziegler 522 00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:19,620 was standing at the defendants table accused of murder. 523 00:26:19,620 --> 00:26:23,900 And Judge Paul was sitting on the bench making decisions 524 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:25,700 that would affect his life. 525 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:30,060 Judge Maurice Paul was a very respected member 526 00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:32,660 of the judiciary of Orange County. 527 00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:35,900 He is now a federal district court judge up 528 00:26:35,900 --> 00:26:37,420 in northern part of Florida. 529 00:26:37,420 --> 00:26:39,660 And his reputation and ethics have never 530 00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:40,660 been subject to question. 531 00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:43,100 No one has even ever alleged he has anything 532 00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:45,140 other than an honest man. 533 00:26:45,140 --> 00:26:48,540 Nothing that I've heard the defense claiming outside 534 00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:52,940 of court in books or on TV is in any way convincing 535 00:26:52,940 --> 00:26:54,860 once you analyze it. 536 00:26:54,860 --> 00:26:56,500 Once you analyze all of their claims, 537 00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:58,100 you see that they really are nothing. 538 00:27:00,940 --> 00:27:05,300 On May 19, 1986, Ziegler stood at the precipice. 539 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:08,100 Less than 24 hours remained before he would face 540 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:10,620 the electric chair. 541 00:27:10,620 --> 00:27:13,140 Then a federal court granted a stay. 542 00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:15,260 Ziegler filed an appeal. 543 00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:19,020 In 1987, his attorneys used Florida's Freedom of Information 544 00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:21,940 Act to open up the prosecution files. 545 00:27:21,940 --> 00:27:24,060 They found previously undisclosed evidence. 546 00:27:26,740 --> 00:27:29,860 You're about to hear excerpts of a tape recorded conversation 547 00:27:29,860 --> 00:27:31,820 between a prosecution investigator 548 00:27:31,820 --> 00:27:33,820 and an apparent witness. 549 00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:35,780 The young man was staying at this motel 550 00:27:35,780 --> 00:27:37,460 on the night of the murders. 551 00:27:37,460 --> 00:27:41,940 His room faced the back of Ziegler's store. 552 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:45,180 The man said that at about 8.30 he saw a policeman, 553 00:27:45,180 --> 00:27:49,100 service revolver drawn, hunkered down behind the store. 554 00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:53,180 Around 9, he heard shots. 555 00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:56,860 This is obviously significant because if it was at 9 o'clock, 556 00:27:56,860 --> 00:28:00,820 this was 20 minutes at least before the time Tommy 557 00:28:00,820 --> 00:28:03,300 called for help. 558 00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:06,340 It would mean that Tommy would have been in the store 559 00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:07,700 at this time. 560 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:10,500 And if there was a policeman outside with his gun drawn 561 00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:12,980 and there were shots going off, then the police 562 00:28:12,980 --> 00:28:15,140 had to have been involved. 563 00:28:15,140 --> 00:28:19,020 It appears to have shots being fired after the police arrived, 564 00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:22,220 which clearly couldn't be related to the murder. 565 00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:24,820 Maybe some sound that sounded like a gunshot. 566 00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:28,460 So the information itself is meaningless. 567 00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:30,540 Was a police officer involved? 568 00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:32,300 We may never know. 569 00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:34,780 The prosecution did not inform Ziegler's attorneys 570 00:28:34,780 --> 00:28:37,220 of this account, nor did they call the witness 571 00:28:37,220 --> 00:28:39,980 to testify at the trial. 572 00:28:39,980 --> 00:28:43,300 No, as long as you heard the gunshots after you saw 573 00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:46,060 the police cars, that wouldn't help us a bit. 574 00:28:48,980 --> 00:28:51,940 Today, Tommy Ziegler is asking for a new trial in which 575 00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:54,140 a new judge and jury can listen to the tape 576 00:28:54,140 --> 00:28:56,300 and review all the evidence. 577 00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:59,220 A ruling on Ziegler's appeal is still pending. 578 00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:01,380 Of course, the question remains. 579 00:29:01,420 --> 00:29:04,140 Even if Tommy Ziegler wins another day in court, 580 00:29:04,140 --> 00:29:05,900 will the verdict be any different? 581 00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:23,180 Next, when rock and roll singer Kurt Cobain committed suicide, 582 00:29:23,180 --> 00:29:25,140 few questioned the official ruling. 583 00:29:25,140 --> 00:29:27,060 But private investigator Tom Grant 584 00:29:27,060 --> 00:29:29,580 is convinced that the truth about Cobain's death 585 00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:30,740 has yet to be revealed. 586 00:29:45,460 --> 00:29:47,780 April 8, 1994. 587 00:29:47,780 --> 00:29:50,020 Music fans worldwide were horrified 588 00:29:50,020 --> 00:29:53,060 to learn of the tragic death of reluctant rock star Kurt 589 00:29:53,060 --> 00:29:55,020 Cobain. 590 00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:56,860 Cobain's body was found in a room 591 00:29:56,860 --> 00:29:59,900 above the garage of a Seattle, Washington home. 592 00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:02,500 He had apparently taken a large dose of heroin 593 00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:04,100 and killed himself with a shotgun. 594 00:30:08,060 --> 00:30:11,820 Even as the morning commenced, rumors began to circulate. 595 00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:14,580 What if Kurt Cobain did not kill himself? 596 00:30:14,580 --> 00:30:17,580 What if Kurt Cobain was murdered? 597 00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:19,900 One private investigator who's been on the case 598 00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:24,900 from the very beginning believes the official ruling is wrong. 599 00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:27,820 I don't believe Kurt Cobain committed suicide. 600 00:30:27,820 --> 00:30:30,780 I believe there was someone with him in that room. 601 00:30:30,780 --> 00:30:32,980 I believe it was someone that he knew. 602 00:30:32,980 --> 00:30:35,100 They were doing heroin together. 603 00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:38,700 I believe at a certain point, more heroin 604 00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:41,860 was injected into Kurt Cobain than what he wanted injected 605 00:30:41,860 --> 00:30:43,780 into himself. 606 00:30:43,780 --> 00:30:46,820 And after that point, he was shot with a shotgun 607 00:30:46,820 --> 00:30:50,860 once he had become totally incapacitated. 608 00:30:50,860 --> 00:30:53,780 Our detectives actually went into this investigation 609 00:30:53,780 --> 00:30:56,820 on the premise that this was a homicide. 610 00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:59,380 That's the way they conducted this investigation, 611 00:30:59,380 --> 00:31:02,260 so that there was a very thorough, comprehensive 612 00:31:02,260 --> 00:31:04,980 investigation done from the very beginning. 613 00:31:04,980 --> 00:31:09,100 And everything that the detectives encountered 614 00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:11,780 indicated to them that this was a suicide. 615 00:31:11,780 --> 00:31:15,180 We actually found nothing to indicate 616 00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:17,660 that this was anything but a suicide. 617 00:31:21,060 --> 00:31:23,460 Kurt Cobain was a lead singer and creative force 618 00:31:23,460 --> 00:31:27,980 for Nirvana, a wildly popular grunge rock band. 619 00:31:27,980 --> 00:31:33,300 But Cobain also made headlines for his drug-addicted lifestyle. 620 00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:36,980 This photograph was taken on March 4, 1994, 621 00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:40,780 as Cobain was being rushed to a hospital in Rome, Italy. 622 00:31:40,780 --> 00:31:45,740 He had overdosed on sedatives and alcohol and nearly died. 623 00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:48,780 Three weeks later, on March 30, family and friends 624 00:31:48,780 --> 00:31:51,980 persuaded Cobain to check into the Exodus Recovery Center 625 00:31:51,980 --> 00:31:55,780 in Marina del Rey, California. 626 00:31:55,780 --> 00:31:57,820 But in less than 48 hours, Cobain 627 00:31:57,820 --> 00:32:01,660 walked out and took a late night flight back to Seattle. 628 00:32:01,660 --> 00:32:04,620 A limo driver dropped Cobain off at his home, 629 00:32:04,620 --> 00:32:06,860 where his daughter's male nanny saw him on the morning 630 00:32:06,860 --> 00:32:10,180 of April 2. 631 00:32:10,180 --> 00:32:13,900 The next day, Cobain's wife, fellow rocker Courtney Love, 632 00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:17,200 is said to have contacted Tom Grant, a Los Angeles-based 633 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,100 private investigator and former LA County Sheriff's 634 00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:22,380 Deputy. 635 00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:25,900 Grant claims he met with Love at a Beverly Hills hotel. 636 00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:28,300 He also says she did not mention that Cobain had been 637 00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:32,500 seen at their Seattle home the day before. 638 00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:37,460 We set up a surveillance in Seattle on a couple of locations. 639 00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:40,620 And we were attempting to locate Kurt 640 00:32:40,620 --> 00:32:44,100 and try to determine what he was doing, where he was, 641 00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:45,500 where he was going. 642 00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:47,860 Courtney asked us, of course, not to contact him, 643 00:32:47,860 --> 00:32:49,340 not to make any contact with him, 644 00:32:49,340 --> 00:32:53,900 just to report back where he was and what was going on. 645 00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:57,740 When the surveillance failed, Grant himself flew to Seattle. 646 00:32:57,740 --> 00:33:01,300 He claims he and one of Cobain's friends began searching. 647 00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:03,740 They checked Cobain's usual hangouts. 648 00:33:03,740 --> 00:33:06,780 Then about 2 AM on April 7, Grant says 649 00:33:06,780 --> 00:33:09,580 they went to Cobain's house. 650 00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:12,380 And we searched the entire interior of the house, 651 00:33:12,380 --> 00:33:15,740 the basement, the living room, the upstairs, the attic. 652 00:33:15,740 --> 00:33:18,460 We looked all through the house for Kurt. 653 00:33:18,460 --> 00:33:20,340 His friend, when we went in the house, 654 00:33:20,340 --> 00:33:22,820 made a comment that he'd never seen the house as clean before. 655 00:33:22,820 --> 00:33:28,780 Apparently, it's never been that straightened up. 656 00:33:28,780 --> 00:33:30,900 We didn't locate Kurt. 657 00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:33,940 We didn't see any indication that he had been at the house. 658 00:33:33,940 --> 00:33:35,900 And about this location right here. 659 00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:39,260 Some 20 hours later, Tom Grant says he and Cobain's friend 660 00:33:39,260 --> 00:33:41,380 searched the house again. 661 00:33:41,380 --> 00:33:43,700 This time, Grant claims they found a note left 662 00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:46,660 for Cobain by the male nanny. 663 00:33:46,660 --> 00:33:49,340 The first line of the note started off, Kurt, 664 00:33:49,340 --> 00:33:51,660 I can't believe you managed to be in this house without me 665 00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:54,020 knowing. 666 00:33:54,020 --> 00:33:57,580 We searched the entire interior of the residence once again 667 00:33:57,580 --> 00:33:59,660 for any evidence that Kurt might have been there the night 668 00:33:59,660 --> 00:34:03,820 before, or since we had left the location the first time. 669 00:34:03,820 --> 00:34:06,740 And we found no evidence that he had been there. 670 00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:08,900 The next day, an electrician discovered 671 00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:11,100 Cobain's body in a room above the garage 672 00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:12,580 known as the greenhouse. 673 00:34:12,580 --> 00:34:16,620 The only place Grant says he and Cobain's friend did not check. 674 00:34:16,620 --> 00:34:19,300 According to Grant, he was never told about the room, 675 00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:22,420 and it was too dark to see it. 676 00:34:22,420 --> 00:34:23,860 It just really seemed strange to me 677 00:34:23,860 --> 00:34:26,100 that the one place in that entire property 678 00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:30,460 that we didn't search was a place that I was never told about. 679 00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:32,780 And of course, the medical examiner later 680 00:34:32,780 --> 00:34:34,340 determined that Kurt had been laying up there 681 00:34:34,340 --> 00:34:36,180 dead for several days. 682 00:34:36,180 --> 00:34:37,900 So while we were searching the main house, 683 00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:42,140 Kurt Cobain was lying dead up above the garage. 684 00:34:42,140 --> 00:34:45,740 This is a diagram of Tom Grant's depiction of the death scene, 685 00:34:45,740 --> 00:34:48,820 the 20-gauge shotgun was still cradled across Kurt Cobain's 686 00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:49,780 body. 687 00:34:49,780 --> 00:34:53,300 His heroin kit was at his side, and a note apparently written 688 00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:56,220 by Cobain was in plain sight. 689 00:34:56,220 --> 00:34:58,260 The first officers to arrive at the house 690 00:34:58,260 --> 00:35:02,420 reported that they were on the scene of a suicide. 691 00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:05,700 I contacted the police the day the body was found. 692 00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:08,060 I attempted on the telephone to get them 693 00:35:08,060 --> 00:35:11,500 to slow down a little bit. 694 00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:14,220 I indicated I felt something was wrong. 695 00:35:14,220 --> 00:35:15,860 They basically told me on the phone, hey, 696 00:35:15,860 --> 00:35:19,980 we know a suicide when we see a suicide. 697 00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:22,500 Tom Grant strongly disagrees and believes 698 00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:25,740 he has found a number of notable inconsistencies. 699 00:35:25,740 --> 00:35:28,260 Item number one, according to Grant, 700 00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:31,380 Kurt Cobain carried only one credit card. 701 00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:33,780 Courtney Leved reportedly canceled that card 702 00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:38,420 shortly after Cobain left the drug rehab in California. 703 00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:41,860 Now, Courtney told me that she had stopped this credit card 704 00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:45,380 so that she could track Kurt's activities as he attempted 705 00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:47,180 to use the credit card. 706 00:35:47,180 --> 00:35:49,860 In actuality, stopping the credit card 707 00:35:49,860 --> 00:35:52,300 is what made it more difficult. 708 00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:54,300 After the credit card was canceled, 709 00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,220 the bank apparently recorded only the dates, the amounts, 710 00:35:57,220 --> 00:36:00,300 and generic information, not where the attempts were 711 00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,100 made to use the card. 712 00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:06,140 There was an attempt made on April 6th 713 00:36:06,140 --> 00:36:09,060 in an amount of over $1,500. 714 00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:12,660 There was another attempt made on April 8th, which was Friday, 715 00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:16,980 the day the body was found, for an amount of $43. 716 00:36:16,980 --> 00:36:19,500 Now, according to the medical examiner, 717 00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:26,020 Kurt had died sometime on April 5th, the previous Tuesday. 718 00:36:26,020 --> 00:36:29,020 Who was using the credit card? 719 00:36:29,020 --> 00:36:31,980 The information we've been able to receive from the bank 720 00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:34,940 has only been able to identify for us 721 00:36:34,940 --> 00:36:39,180 when the information was logged onto their mainframe computer 722 00:36:39,180 --> 00:36:42,780 and not specifically when the attempt was made or who it 723 00:36:42,780 --> 00:36:45,140 was made by. 724 00:36:45,140 --> 00:36:46,980 Now, after the body was discovered, of course, 725 00:36:46,980 --> 00:36:50,380 the police searched Kurt's property. 726 00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:52,420 Two other cards were found in the wallet, 727 00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:56,380 but the actual credit card that Courtney had canceled, 728 00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:58,660 the same card that someone was attempting 729 00:36:58,660 --> 00:37:02,100 to use after we now know Kurt was already did, 730 00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:06,580 was not found in Kurt's property. 731 00:37:06,580 --> 00:37:09,360 Item number two, the autopsy reportedly 732 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,000 showed Kurt Cobain's blood contained a tranquilizer, 733 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,380 diazepam, and heroin. 734 00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:17,500 According to Tom Grant in published news articles, 735 00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:21,220 the level was 1.52 milligrams per liter. 736 00:37:21,220 --> 00:37:23,780 Some medical experts say that much heroin 737 00:37:23,780 --> 00:37:27,900 could kill a non-addict three times over. 738 00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:31,900 Could he, with that much heroin and diazepam in his system, 739 00:37:31,940 --> 00:37:34,780 could he even pick up that shotgun? 740 00:37:34,780 --> 00:37:38,860 Wouldn't he be incapacitated within seconds? 741 00:37:38,860 --> 00:37:44,100 For most people, including addicts, 1.52 milligrams 742 00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:48,540 per liter of morphine is a significant level. 743 00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:51,820 And for most of them, the great percentage, 744 00:37:51,820 --> 00:37:56,740 it will be a level that will induce a state of unconsciousness 745 00:37:56,740 --> 00:38:01,220 quite quickly, talking about seconds, not minutes. 746 00:38:01,260 --> 00:38:04,700 Cyril Wecht is a nationally known forensic pathologist. 747 00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:07,540 Even though he hasn't seen the autopsy report, 748 00:38:07,540 --> 00:38:10,420 Wecht believes a suicide ruling is correct. 749 00:38:10,420 --> 00:38:14,460 However, he does find the high level of heroin intriguing. 750 00:38:14,460 --> 00:38:17,740 I just cannot tell you that it would have been impossible 751 00:38:17,740 --> 00:38:22,100 for him to have shot himself because it was found 752 00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:27,260 that he had a level of 1.52 milligrams per liter of morphine 753 00:38:27,260 --> 00:38:29,620 at the postmortem examination. 754 00:38:29,620 --> 00:38:33,260 It's certainly within the realm of possibility, 755 00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:37,860 but it does raise a question as to whether or not 756 00:38:37,860 --> 00:38:40,740 he shot that shotgun. 757 00:38:40,740 --> 00:38:44,020 Dr. Donald Ray, chief medical examiner of King County, 758 00:38:44,020 --> 00:38:46,460 inspected Cobain's body at the scene. 759 00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:50,820 He does not find Cobain's heroin intake problematic. 760 00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:52,300 It's really an issue of tolerance. 761 00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:53,700 How much is this person used to? 762 00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:57,620 If a person has gradually, over months or years, 763 00:38:57,660 --> 00:39:03,260 increased the dose, a person could function 764 00:39:03,260 --> 00:39:08,020 with that amount of drugs, narcotics, or whatever it is 765 00:39:08,020 --> 00:39:08,940 present in the system. 766 00:39:08,940 --> 00:39:12,940 Again, so much of it depends upon individual tolerance 767 00:39:12,940 --> 00:39:15,220 over a period of time. 768 00:39:15,220 --> 00:39:18,580 Item number three, police have checked the shotgun, 769 00:39:18,580 --> 00:39:20,540 the shotgun shells, and the pen used 770 00:39:20,540 --> 00:39:23,260 to write the suicide note for fingerprints. 771 00:39:23,260 --> 00:39:26,620 There were no legible prints on any of them. 772 00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:28,100 I think it's clear that anyone who 773 00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:31,060 is familiar with firearms and their use 774 00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:34,620 would know that as they hold a weapon, that frequently 775 00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:37,060 that weapon will move in their hand. 776 00:39:37,060 --> 00:39:39,140 Additionally, when that weapon is discharged, 777 00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:41,260 that causes a jerking motion, which 778 00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:45,020 causes the hands to move over the surface of the weapon. 779 00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:49,140 And all of those factors could cause any fingerprints 780 00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:53,900 that may have been left on the weapon to be unusable. 781 00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:56,980 Item number four, the alleged suicide note. 782 00:39:56,980 --> 00:39:59,660 Tom Grant believes it was actually a retirement letter 783 00:39:59,660 --> 00:40:02,300 to Cobain's fans. 784 00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:04,580 There were rumors that Cobain was feeling burned out 785 00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:07,420 and was planning to adopt a lower profile. 786 00:40:07,420 --> 00:40:10,940 He had recently pulled out of the annual Lala Palooza tour, 787 00:40:10,940 --> 00:40:13,700 a decision which some speculate could have cost Cobain 788 00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:17,820 and others involved millions of dollars. 789 00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:21,500 This is a copy of the note that has been widely circulated. 790 00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:24,060 Tom Grant suggests that only the last four lines 791 00:40:24,060 --> 00:40:26,580 indicate suicide. 792 00:40:26,580 --> 00:40:30,420 They read, please keep going, Courtney, for Francis, 793 00:40:30,420 --> 00:40:33,740 for her life which will be so much happier without me. 794 00:40:33,740 --> 00:40:34,780 I love you. 795 00:40:34,780 --> 00:40:36,740 I love you. 796 00:40:36,740 --> 00:40:38,380 Curiously, these lines are written 797 00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:40,780 in much larger characters than the rest of the note. 798 00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:45,900 Unsolved Mysteries asked handwriting expert Marcel 799 00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:49,100 Matley to compare a copy of Cobain's alleged suicide note 800 00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:53,500 with copies of two pages of lyrics handwritten by Cobain. 801 00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:56,900 Matley believes a bulk of the note was written by Cobain, 802 00:40:56,900 --> 00:41:00,700 but finds the last four lines questionable. 803 00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:04,740 As to the last four lines, there are more than a dozen 804 00:41:04,740 --> 00:41:07,540 differences that should give us pause. 805 00:41:07,540 --> 00:41:10,860 And we would have to reasonably explain these differences 806 00:41:10,860 --> 00:41:14,660 before we can conclude that the same person wrote the four 807 00:41:14,660 --> 00:41:17,420 lines that wrote the body of it. 808 00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:20,660 Handwriting expert Reginald Alton of Oxford University 809 00:41:20,660 --> 00:41:23,140 also compared copies of Cobain's handwriting 810 00:41:23,140 --> 00:41:25,380 to a copy of the note. 811 00:41:25,380 --> 00:41:27,780 In a five-page written report, Alton 812 00:41:27,780 --> 00:41:30,540 pointed out more than a dozen discrepancies. 813 00:41:30,540 --> 00:41:32,700 Alton believes a bulk of the suicide note 814 00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:35,620 was written by Cobain, but raises questions 815 00:41:35,620 --> 00:41:39,740 about the first line and the last four lines. 816 00:41:39,740 --> 00:41:42,340 His report concludes, quote, there 817 00:41:42,340 --> 00:41:43,780 are many indications that there may 818 00:41:43,780 --> 00:41:46,580 have been a second hand at work. 819 00:41:46,580 --> 00:41:49,580 Alton cautions, however, that the copies are not good enough 820 00:41:49,580 --> 00:41:53,020 to make any firm pronouncement. 821 00:41:53,020 --> 00:41:56,420 We did take the note from the scene 822 00:41:56,420 --> 00:42:01,620 and have it examined at the Washington State Crime Lab. 823 00:42:01,620 --> 00:42:05,500 And their handwriting analyst has indicated 824 00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:08,460 that it is her belief that this note was 825 00:42:08,460 --> 00:42:12,660 written by Mr. Cobain. 826 00:42:12,660 --> 00:42:16,300 Kurt Cobain had made an important decision in his life. 827 00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:19,020 He wanted out of the entertainment business. 828 00:42:19,020 --> 00:42:20,260 He didn't want to tour anymore. 829 00:42:20,260 --> 00:42:22,140 He didn't want to perform anymore. 830 00:42:22,140 --> 00:42:23,140 He wanted to be left alone. 831 00:42:23,140 --> 00:42:28,940 He never liked that aspect of being a performer. 832 00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:30,940 This decision that he had made was 833 00:42:30,940 --> 00:42:33,740 going to affect a lot of other people. 834 00:42:33,740 --> 00:42:37,700 He was no longer the money machine that he once was. 835 00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:42,860 Now Cobain was worth more dead than he was alive. 836 00:42:42,860 --> 00:42:45,380 But who would have wanted Kurt Cobain dead? 837 00:42:45,380 --> 00:42:48,620 Could it have been a mysterious user of his credit card? 838 00:42:48,620 --> 00:42:51,380 Did that same person add critical lines to Cobain's alleged 839 00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:53,500 suicide note? 840 00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:56,020 For now, those questions remain unanswered. 841 00:42:58,980 --> 00:43:01,180 Despite the controversy, the Seattle police 842 00:43:01,180 --> 00:43:03,180 are confident they made the correct ruling. 843 00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:05,820 They consider the case closed. 844 00:43:05,820 --> 00:43:07,820 Tom Grant does not. 845 00:43:07,820 --> 00:43:10,220 He believes the investigation should be reopened 846 00:43:10,220 --> 00:43:12,820 and the inconsistencies resolve once and for all. 847 00:43:16,060 --> 00:43:24,460 On our next Unsaugh Mysteries, in 1994, 848 00:43:24,460 --> 00:43:26,460 fragments of a giant comet set off 849 00:43:26,460 --> 00:43:30,180 a series of cataclysmic explosions on the planet Jupiter. 850 00:43:30,180 --> 00:43:33,060 Is there more destruction lurking in the night sky? 851 00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:36,340 Will Earth be the next target? 852 00:43:36,340 --> 00:43:39,540 Also, the crash of a presidential helicopter 853 00:43:39,540 --> 00:43:42,300 in Maryland prompt speculation that the craft was down 854 00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,780 by friendly fire in the form of an experimental top secret 855 00:43:45,780 --> 00:43:48,220 weapon. 856 00:43:48,220 --> 00:43:51,380 Join me next time for another intriguing addition 857 00:43:51,380 --> 00:43:52,540 of Unsaugh Mysteries.